tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6748877443699290050.post3566043489807541932..comments2024-03-29T00:21:17.976-07:00Comments on eMpTy Pages: Monolithic MT or 50 Shades of Grey?Kirti Vasheehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16795076802721564830noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6748877443699290050.post-41619626329495942242014-07-07T17:54:19.021-07:002014-07-07T17:54:19.021-07:00Not sure I would characterize these as samples of ...Not sure I would characterize these as samples of super MT -- but they are indeed customized and domain focused<br /><br />Travel Domain EN to ES MT system<br /><br />All studios are equipped with a small kitchen, fridge and separate bathroom.<br />The hotels facilities include an outdoor swimming pool and a beauty parlour.<br />Enjoy typical French cuisine in the traditional restaurant Aux Trois Cochons.<br />The hotel is in the heart of the historical centre, near to all major attractions.<br />The hotel is located at the heart of the Huangpu District, close to Nanpu Bridge.<br /> <br />MT of above source sentences:<br /><br />Todos los estudios están equipados con una pequeña cocina, nevera y un baño independiente.<br />Las instalaciones del hotel incluyen una piscina exterior y un salón de belleza.<br />Disfrute de la típica cocina francesa en el restaurante tradicional Aux Trois Cochons.<br />El hotel está en el corazón del centro histórico, cerca de todas las atracciones principales.<br />El hotel está situado en el corazón del distrito de Huangpu, cerca de puente Nanpu.<br /><br />Another set of source sentences from an English to Portuguese IT engine<br /><br />Next to the lab that you want to view, click View Schedule.<br />Select the content that you want to share in the main training session.<br />Specifies that My Meetings is not available in the user's My WebEx area.<br />It can take a considerable amount of time to batch import or export.<br />Specifies that you want to create a presentation using the On-Demand Module.<br />Click Yes to confirm that you want to delete the account.<br />Specifies the password to view or download the recording.<br />To save the changes you make, click Save.<br /><br /> MT of these sentences:<br /><br />Ao lado do laboratório que você deseja exibir, clique em exibir agenda.<br />Selecione o conteúdo que deseja compartilhar na sessão de treinamento principal.<br />Especifica que minhas reuniões não está disponível na área meu Webex do usuário.<br />Pode levar um tempo considerável para importar ou exportar em lote.<br />Especifica se você deseja criar uma apresentação usando o módulo sob demanda.<br />Clique em sim para confirmar que você deseja excluir a conta.<br />Especifica a senha para exibir ou baixar a gravação.<br />Para salvar as alterações feitas, clique em salvar.<br /> <br /><br /> And a few samples from an EN to DE Info Tech MT engine which is much more difficult direction for MT engines<br /><br /><br />An alternate host can start the meeting and act as the host.<br />Individual reports will be kept for 3 months on the server.<br />Select the application you want to share from the list of available application.<br />Sign in to the site you want to use.<br />What is the difference between inserting files and using a URL?<br />Additional bandwidth might be required based on your usage.<br />They are listed as additional contacts, to help the members.<br />Please delete one or more contacts and try again.<br />Then invite attendees to use the reserved computers during the scheduled time.<br />Click this icon to change any information about the recording that appears in this list.<br /><br /> Unedited MT below:<br /><br />Alternative Gastgeber können das Meeting starten und als Gastgeber handeln.<br />Individuelle Berichte für 3 Monate gehalten wird, auf dem Server.<br />Wählen Sie die Applikation aus, die sie teilen möchten, wählen Sie aus der Liste der verfügbaren Applikationen.<br />Melden Sie sich bei der Site, die Sie verwenden möchten.<br />Welcher Unterschied besteht zwischen dem Einfügen von Dateien und dem Verwenden eines URL?<br />Zusätzliche Bandbreite erforderlich sein könnten, basierend auf ihre Nutzung.<br />Sie werden als zusätzliche Kontakte aufgeführt, um den Mitgliedern zu helfen.<br />Bitte löschen Sie einen oder mehrere Kontakte, und versuchen Sie es erneut.<br />Dann laden Sie Teilnehmer ein, die reservierten Computer verwenden während der angesetzten Zeit.<br />Klicken Sie auf dieses Symbol, um die Informationen zur Aufzeichnung zu ändern, die in dieser Liste angezeigt.<br /><br /><br /><br />In the hands of experts these systems will get better as error feedback is given or simply by looking at corrections. The objective is not to replace the human, but rather to raise his/her productivity. <br />Kirti Vasheehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16795076802721564830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6748877443699290050.post-369119619605234482014-07-07T16:54:59.393-07:002014-07-07T16:54:59.393-07:00Much better? How good are they really?
The article...Much better? How good are they really?<br />The article you linked above talks about different kinds of MT without giving any examples of how good or bad they really are, so where is the evidence?! And the article belittles all translators who think all MT is the same in the sense of its inadequacy. Those translators obviously don't know what they're talking about. Yeah, right.<br /><br />There is a good reason why many translators oppose MT completely - but if you can show us some examples of how good a machine translation is - I would gladly see it.<br />A good MT to me means a machine that can translate relatively complex sentences CORRECTLY.<br /><br />Maybe the article gets the definition of MT wrong - yes, there are many tools that help us translate texts (online dictionaries, CAT tools and TMs, speech recognition programs are just a few), but they are not what is commonly referred to as machine translation.<br />A machine translation to me is a translation of simple and complex sentences carried out by a machine, not a human.<br /><br />If the translation were good, MT could be a great tool or it could eventually replace human translators, and only programmers of MT machines would be needed.<br /><br />Also, and "if nothing else, at least MT helps reduce time spent on typing" is not an argument I can support. You need to compare what the machine translated with the original text and then you have to rearrange words and replace words and phrases which can be quite a headache and can end up being much more work than a "clean" human translation. Also, wrong sentence structure, word endings, mistakes in tense and mode can be a constant annoyance.<br /><br />So show me the result of one of those super MTs,<br /><br />BBernhard Sulzernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6748877443699290050.post-9118987634935201152014-06-04T17:08:30.271-07:002014-06-04T17:08:30.271-07:00I agree, translation is different from post-editin...I agree, translation is different from post-editing and that some translators will very likely never have an interest in doing any PEMT. For many new translators however, PEMT when using Expert and responsive MT is not so different from the experience of working with TM fuzzy matches even though the errors are different in character. The key is that it should only be used if it actually improves the productivity of the individual editor or translator. It is a tool to aid, not replace translators and any kind of premium translation service. <br /><br />Hopefully we all get smarter about quickly understanding where it works, who knows to make it work best and how to use it with humans to keep it a win-win scenario.<br /><br />And while we will see more MT (with many low quality variants) there will ALWAYS be a shortage of good translators with subject matter expertise and this shortage is likely to get worse in future.Kirti Vasheehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16795076802721564830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6748877443699290050.post-53758156828019796842014-06-03T14:18:51.378-07:002014-06-03T14:18:51.378-07:00There are almost nothing in life that it Black or ...There are almost nothing in life that it Black or White. Talking about things in very simplified and general manner, especially complicated things, is more often than not just populism.<br /><br />With that in mind, most of what you wrote in this comparison, Kirti, could be mirrored to represent how the MT advocates talk about translators and the translation profession, as well as the application and purpose of MT in a commercial environment.<br /><br />As far as Conflation goes, many MT advocates/proprietors so naturally expect translators to do PEMT. I won't got about the whole PEMT debate right now, but those who think that way completely don't realize that a translator and an editor are completely different professions that require different skillets, and although superficially there is some overlap because both are dealing with language, one is not interchangeable with the other.<br /><br />Then there is the common claim that MT is universally applicable (and some even go so far as claiming it to be a human translator killer) and everyone should jump aboard or drown, a fallacy that considers: 1) All translators to be of equal experience, expertise, skillsets, and goals; 2) The segmentation of the market and demand for high quality, specialized human translation.<br /><br />And I can go on, but I won't for the sake of brevity and to avoid repeating myself as I've commented about this in few of your previous posts.<br /><br />So yes, not all translators understand the different shades of MT, but there is just as much misconception and ignorance about the market and translation profession from the side of MT advocates.<br /><br />And in response to the common claim of many irresponsible MT promoters out there, I will sign off by saying: Yes, MT is not going anywhere (but some of the investors do), and so is the human translator.Shainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6748877443699290050.post-4856970235766024602014-06-03T10:19:52.317-07:002014-06-03T10:19:52.317-07:0050 or 5, doesn't matter
True, the fact is tha...50 or 5, doesn't matter<br /><br />True, the fact is that all MT is not the same - depending on who conceived the system, with what (mis)understanding of the fundamentals of the translation process, with what means available etc.<br />Same as not all protein-based translation devices are to be bundled together.<br />Having said that, MT is not going to go away just because some people don't like it.<br />Nowadays, MT is all too often as useful as a steam-powered Papin car on a modern motorway, but that will keep changing, in only one direction. And maybe faster than anticipated.<br />Daryohttp://www.proz.com/interpreter/1537346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6748877443699290050.post-18788431170263777902014-06-03T10:13:48.247-07:002014-06-03T10:13:48.247-07:00Excellent article. Best comparison of available sy...Excellent article. Best comparison of available systems I've read. Thank you. <br /><br />By Richard Lankenau<br />Richard Lankenauhttps://www.linkedin.com/groups?viewMemberFeed&gid=145268&memberID=63577707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6748877443699290050.post-46801115385630994862014-06-03T10:03:39.106-07:002014-06-03T10:03:39.106-07:00Thanks for this Kirti, I think your categorization...Thanks for this Kirti, I think your categorization of MT is absolutely to the point. Knowing exactly what you are doing, and why you are doing it, this is the best piece of advice when looking at using or implementing a transforming technology (and this can relate to any kind of business technology, not only MT!) <br /><br />By Sylvie Guerin<br />Sylvie Guerinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6748877443699290050.post-35665056967142650792014-06-02T09:55:13.720-07:002014-06-02T09:55:13.720-07:00I like especially the suggestion that translators ...I like especially the suggestion that translators tell which MT engine produced the translation which they comment. <br /><br />By Walter Keutgen<br />Walter Keutgennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6748877443699290050.post-66135731290529634612014-06-01T22:54:08.918-07:002014-06-01T22:54:08.918-07:00Thanks Kirti for an in-depth description of the di...Thanks Kirti for an in-depth description of the different kinds of MT. There is indeed a world of difference between editing the output of expert customised systems and the others. <br />By Gillian Searl<br />Gillian Searlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6748877443699290050.post-861713644655392772014-06-01T19:17:23.644-07:002014-06-01T19:17:23.644-07:00Kirti, thanks for a very well written article. I w...Kirti, thanks for a very well written article. I will take it as a point of departure for future references to MT. All your points are valid and well received. Thank you for a very clear framework and reference tool. <br /><br />By Claudia Brauer<br />Claudia Brauernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6748877443699290050.post-65597034290864815262014-06-01T03:15:41.073-07:002014-06-01T03:15:41.073-07:00Kirti, I think this is a really good idea. I like ...Kirti, I think this is a really good idea. I like it a lot! <br /><br />The difference in quality of MT output is huge, and I'm sure translators would appreciate to know which MT engine has been used. They'll be less blind, understand the risk in the job a bit better, and as such it will help them to accept MT-jobs. <br /><br />It would be a smart move for LSPs to tell their translators what MT engine they used to pre-translate the jobs. I'll include this in my MT-coaching material for LSPs. <br /><br />Thanks for this splendid idea!<br /><br />gert<br /><br /><br />Gert Van Asschehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07995508158749134808noreply@blogger.com